Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon

Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon.mp4 [0:02:39] Rebecca Hargraves Welcome to the backlash. I am your host, Rebecca Hargraves. I don't know why I messed that up. [0:02:44] Dave Reilly Oh wow, we're off to a strong start today. [0:02:46] Rebecca Hargraves My name is Rebecca Hargraves. I know it well. It's my own name. Great start. I am joined as always by Mr. Dave Riley. How are you doing? [0:02:54] Cameron M I'm doing good. [0:02:54] Rebecca Hargraves How are you? Good. Have a good weekend. Yeah, it's incredibly hot. [0:02:58] Dave Reilly Yeah, it's just painfully, painfully hot. [0:03:00] Rebecca Hargraves I kind of can't wait for winter. [0:03:02] Dave Reilly Yeah, you know, it'll get that way. It will. You do anything fun? [0:03:05] Rebecca Hargraves Uh, no. [0:03:07] Dave Reilly Why not? What's wrong with you? We had the fair in town. We had the fair in town. [0:03:11] Rebecca Hargraves I went to the fair. And it was a disconcerting experience. Why? Because I'm always worried that the fair represents the general population. And then I go there and I'm like, oh, we are so screwed. We are so screwed. It was fun, though. You can find us on X at real backlash. Our website, thebacklash.net, support us on subscribe, star.com slash the backlash, patreon.com slash the backlash. Superchats that will be read live, questions for our guests at thebacklash.net slash superchat or our YouTube channel, which is somehow taking superchats now. And that is at real backlash sub to us on rumble as well. And that's backlash podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you to our sponsors, Atlas Boolean, your favorite supplier of gold, silver and others north Idaho, tallow, um, that is skin products with no endocrine disruptors and of course antelope hill. The place that will publish literally any little they're not going to like this. The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed [0:04:11] Dave Reilly Let's introduce our guest pastor, I'll do that. Pastor Joel Webin is the president and founder of right response ministries and the senior pastor of covenant Bible church located located on the north side of Austin, Texas. [0:04:25] Rebecca Hargraves He's the husband of Megan. [0:04:27] Dave Reilly The father of five beautiful children, his content is excellent. [0:04:31] Rebecca Hargraves Please check him out. Welcome Joel. [0:04:34] Dave Reilly Thanks for having me. I'm honored to be here. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. You can definitely make sure you follow him, by the way, on X at right response M and his in as in ministries at right response in thanks guys. And his website right response ministries dot com figure we get that up front and then we'll plug it again at the end. [0:04:53] Rebecca Hargraves Sure. Uh, just to start. [0:04:55] Dave Reilly Could you share a little bit about how your journey in ministry led you to found right response [0:05:00] Rebecca Hargraves ministries and covenant Bible church? Yeah, sure. Um, I mean, I, I just, I've been building the plane in mid flight. [0:05:08] Dave Reilly I've been learning as I go, um, I've never claimed to, uh, you know, have started the right way with all my ducks in a row. I did not know what I know now. And I'm still very much a work in progress being sanctified day by day by the power of the Holy Spirit with plenty more sin that God continues to convict me of and plenty more opportunity to repent and trust in Jesus. So I was raised in a pastor's home. I was adopted as a baby, um, and, uh, whatever was broke with my mom got fixed, um, my adoptive mom, she couldn't conceive, but, uh, lots of stories like this after I was adopted, God opened the womb, uh, and they had, uh, multiple biological children. And so I was adopted and raised in a pastor's home, raised in more of a charismatic, um, movement, non-denominational, but, uh, pinocostal light, probably like a pinocostal light, uh, and then, um, as I became a young adult, uh, started, uh, really learning more theology, uh, from the scripture myself, eventually, uh, became, uh, reformed, embraced the reformed tradition on the Protestant side of the aisle in terms of my, uh, my theology, my satiriology, what I believe about, uh, salvation. [0:06:24] Rebecca Hargraves In terms of doctrine of God, I would have a lot, um, almost, almost entirely, uh, the The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed [0:06:29] Dave Reilly same view as most Roman Catholics. I think Roman Catholics are fantastic on theology, proper, um, classical theism and understanding the nature of God, the repursence of God, um, all those things. [0:06:41] Rebecca Hargraves Uh, and so anyways, grew in my theology, uh, set out at a very young age in my early 20s [0:06:48] Dave Reilly to try to plant a church because Protestants are allowed to do whatever we want. [0:06:53] Rebecca Hargraves Which is not great. [0:06:55] Dave Reilly I, you know, there, there are absolutely, uh, weaknesses, uh, with that, but set out to [0:06:59] Rebecca Hargraves plant a church when planting churches within the Protestant, um, within the Protestant Christian, [0:07:06] Dave Reilly you know, realm was all the rage. And so it's like, hey, here's a young guy, you know, and he's going to be fresh and he's going to be relevant. He's going to, you know, be charismatic in terms of, you know, his, his personality and those kinds of things. And, uh, and so I set off the plant a church and, um, and led a glorified Bible study on Sunday evenings for a number of years in San Diego, California, um, continued to make mistakes, was not qualified, uh, to, to plant a church at the time by God's grace. Eventually, I began to grow and, uh, began to grow in character and also in doctrine. And then eventually we established more of, uh, an institutional church that had leaders, elders and beacons and then also a formal, uh, meaningful church membership. That church, uh, in San Diego is still doing, uh, very well. They've started a school now, um, they own a building, uh, we started with nothing. And, uh, and I handed the church over and left the plant a new church in Texas in 2020. Uh, it was, uh, right after having our third child and, uh, just looking at California, especially in 2020, um, I just, I, I, I didn't want to be there. I didn't want to have children there. I didn't want to raise a family there. Uh, the politics, the economics, the culture, um, all those things. And then I also did have disagreements with, uh, my elders. We disagreed sharply over, uh, COVID, um, that was unfortunate. They eventually came around like everybody else, um, everybody came around, but, uh, virtually no one has gone back and said, Oh, by the way, I was wrong. Mm-hmm. Nobody's apologized, of course. Uh, nobody's apologized. Everybody pretends as though, you know, oh, I always saw it. No, you didn't. Right, right. [0:08:53] Rebecca Hargraves I thought to wait the other day that said, uh, who you were during COVID is who you are. [0:08:58] Dave Reilly That's like, that's absolutely right. I'm happy to hear. I wish some people would go back and be like, this was a huge mistake, especially in the ministry. Well, and it's unfortunate because I was at the time, you know, because my elders disagreed when we finally started, you know, when we were doing church, we missed four weeks and, and we didn't want to, I certainly didn't want to, but we were meeting in the The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed school at the time, um, a public school. We were kicked out. We had nowhere to meet eventually. Another church allowed us, they weren't even using, you know, their building. And, uh, and we, you know, they didn't let us use their building either, but they let us, you know, at least congregate outside. We started doing outdoor services at the end of April, um, which I think was still a massive failure, but compared to, um, most churches that put us like eight months ahead of the curb, you know, the fact that we missed a month, you know, instead of a year of church. So we started gathering outside, but again, there was disagreements with my elders. And so we're outdoors doing, you know, still, um, you know, the, the, the myself and [0:09:58] Rebecca Hargraves others are wearing a mask, uh, even though we're outside. [0:10:03] Dave Reilly And I hated it at the time. [0:10:05] Rebecca Hargraves And, um, and of course, my detractors have found pictures of that first service gathered [0:10:12] Dave Reilly outside with a mask. It's in April of 2020, very early on. It was not my decision. I was outvoted at the time. And of course, they use that to say, look, he failed on COVID too. And I'm like, what, like, so it's, it's frustrating. But he was, that was, that was shaping formative for me, uh, radicalized me, um, along with many, many, many others, uh, in America and around the world. And so that was kind of it. So it was like, I'm getting out of California. My, my family, I was born and raised in Texas, raised God. I wasn't, you know, I'm not a native California. I'm very proud of that. Um, and so for me, it was, it wasn't quitting. It wasn't retreating. It was, uh, it was returning home. It was God providentially making me aware that, um, my dream to go and plant a church prematurely in California and try to lead surfers to Jesus was actually stupid. Um, and so it was, you know, God using providence to say, hey, wake up and, uh, go back home. So I went back home to Texas. Um, my wife is native California, but even her own family eight years prior before, before we moved back, uh, seven years back in 2013, they had moved to Texas. Even though they, you know, they were more native to California, um, they were like, man, we need to get out of Dodge. They saw the riding on the wall early. They were wise. They were right. I remember my father in law saying, Joel, you need to move and me saying, I can't. I love this church, you know, and I did love the church. And I do love the church, um, but it was time to go. So 2020, we moved to Texas, started a church, uh, in my living room, because seven other families moved with us. So it's like, you know, we like the organ trail, you know, with our hand wagons, our minivans, you know, moving to Texas, uh, seven different families and, including my own and started church in April of 2021, um, in my living room. And very quickly went from about 20 people, including kids to about 200 people and, uh, and during that time, um, we, you know, we were, I started, you know, doing a podcast because I felt like the Lord leading me to, um, to, to never do less than being a churchman and caring for, you know, individual souls at a local level. Uh, but I wanted if, if God would give me the grace and the capacity to do. So I, I wanted to do more, so not less, but more. And the Lord has just blessed that. And so right response ministry started, you know, around that timeline, uh, a little bit before we moved, um, when I was still in California, kind of heading towards that and then picked up, ramped up in 2021, 2022. And, uh, and now it is, you know, it is what it is. It's not massive. We have like 100, maybe 125,000 or so subscribers on YouTube. X, I didn't even start X until Elon took over because I didn't see the value in it. And, um, but when he took over, so now it's been, you know, whatever three years or something [0:12:57] Rebecca Hargraves The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed like that, and we're about 45, 46,000 on X, but the thing is like the reason people recognize [0:13:04] Dave Reilly me is I, um, I have a knack for, um, for pissing people off. And so, so the clips go viral. You've been doing a great job too. I mean, it's, uh, you've been really kind of carving out a spot, um, for Protestantism because, you know, we're both Catholic, um, uh, one of the other, uh, is he a quaker? I guess he's a, he's a wasch, Anglican, yeah, Anglican, something like that. Um, but I mean, I think I started following you guys when you started your Twitter account and it was definitely, it got my attention at least. I was like, oh, wait a minute. You know, it was right as I was kind of getting disillusioned with this idea of working with Protestants on this Christian nationalism thing, um, you know, because I was very involved in politics here at Idaho, ran for governor, ran for school board, got condemned by the local church as an anti-Semite and, you know, they've been ankle-biting me ever since. Uh, and I really kind of, I don't know how to put it, but I mean, just kind of gave up on this idea of Catholics and Protestants being able to work together, um, to save America. But your, uh, your stuff has kind of given me a little bit of hope, uh, that maybe, maybe there is a way, uh, that we can, we can do something, uh, and that way is Christian nationalism. That is the future. Can you talk a little bit about that and, um, and your four pillars, let me pull up this tweet real quick, um, this, this got, uh, a lot of play, I guess, your four pillars of Christian nationalism or, I guess of America or the, the way to save the American project is that it would be Christian nationalism, patriarchal racism and animation. I just think America especially needs it, but this would, any nation, um, if, if they said, hey, these are the four pillars, it would serve them well. Yes. No, uh, I completely agree. Um, and you also, you mentioned something earlier, uh, that I kind of want to pick at as well, uh, it's 2025. You're a Protestant who thinks Catholics are the biggest enemy. You're a fool. All of Western civilization is invaded by Muslims, captured by Jews, perverted by Sadamites, ruled by women, our civilization is collapsing. Get a clue. Uh, and, you know, I was, I was so real for that. You were so true, so true thing. But what, so I mean, you know, you, you talked about the, the move from California to Texas, but what about the move, um, theologically speaking, you're a Baptist, I believe, um, I, I, so yes, I am a Baptist. Um, I affirmed the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith that said, um, I'm not stupid. I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a little stupid, um, but I recognize that, uh, the overarching witness of church history is paedobaptism, even within Protestantism, and I understand as it pertains to, uh, nationalism, um, and those kinds of things, um, it's, uh, the creedobaptism is, is going to be tough. Um, that's, that's going to be really tough. It's not a coincidence that, uh, even when you think of, you know, European countries like England, uh, for example, like England has had Catholic periods, but it's also, you know, had Protestant periods, and, and both have been able to succeed, at least, you know, temporarily, um, with a national, uh, framework, but even when it was Protestant, it was Anglican, and I don't think that's a coincidence. So I, I recognize some of the deficiencies, uh, with the Baptist position, but the church that I pastor is a Baptist church, I've already made so many theological changes over the years. I, I just want to be slow, I want to be careful. I want to be wise. I don't want to, um, one of the things that I have to hold in tension that other guys, you know, podcasters don't, is that I am a local guy. So it's not just, you know, me hold up in a studio like you can actually find me, right? You know, you can find me on the Lord's Day, you know, at 10 a.m. In a pulpit preaching to, you know, flesh and blood people. And, uh, and so because of that, my calculus is a little bit different, right? I want to, um, I want to be faithful. I want to repent, but I'm wrong. I want to make the changes that are necessary. Um, and yet at the same time, I don't want to make so many changes that I arrive at, you know, this, you know, mountain peak of perfect theology. If that were even possible, but it's me and my wife and my five kids and nobody else. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think of like the second pilgrims progress, uh, John Bunyan, you know, he was a Baptist. And, uh, you know, everybody's familiar with the first, uh, pilgrims progress, but he actually wrote a second volume. And the second one is less of the individual, you know, Christian pilgrimage. And it's, uh, the corporate, uh, Christian pilgrims. So it's, it's now his, you know, his wife, Kristiana and their four sons, um, and then, you know, their company grows over time. Mr. Great Hart, you know, and then there's all these weaker Christians who joined the company that would never make it to the The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed celestial city on their own, feeble-minded, right? John Bunyan's pretty on the nose when you're naming his characters. So there's feeble-minded, there's ready to halt. There's, you know, all these guys who suck, you know, there's one guy called, uh, little faith. And there's a point in the book where, you know, it's like, it's a little faith going to even make it. Like, I mean, he's, he's a little faith after all. Like, look at his name. And, uh, and one of the other characters corrects him and says, Hey, a second, wait a second. Uh, his name is not no faith. His name is little faith. And even faith of a mustard seed can move mountains like he's, yes, he's going to make it. Um, but he makes it in community, right? So like, Mr. Great Hart is like this, you know, Christian giant. He's a warrior. He's, he's incredible. And he's like slaying giants, you know, and fighting a polyon and all these kinds of things. Um, but they make it to the celestial city. And you look at it and you think if it was just Mr. Great Hart traveling alone, he could have made it in a fortnight, um, but he willingly slowed down because he was helping others along the path. And I think pastoral ministry at a local level, um, it's just, it's a different calculus. And, and I'll admit, it has been difficult to hold that tension of going viral on the internet, you know, with right response. [0:19:10] Rebecca Hargraves But then also having that local pastor mindset and strategy, you know, with a flesh and [0:19:17] Dave Reilly blood church. And so anyways, all that being said, long response on this, a long response because I know [0:19:24] Rebecca Hargraves that Baptist suck. [0:19:25] Dave Reilly What you're seeing here is a guilty conscience. But I, you know, I'm saying all that to say, yes, um, I, I am Baptist. I pastor a, a reform Baptist church, um, but many, even in the church, not just myself, we have many that are more of the Presbyterian persuasion and even those that are convicted Baptist, they, they understand that, um, even if not indefinitely, I think everybody has a sense that, um, there are periods of, of throughout this gospel age, there are periods of time where I think, um, where I think that the, you know, there are certain principles and virtues that are timeless, they're immutable, but, but there are periods of time where the church is tactics, um, you, you have to embrace some level of flexibility. So I think that like a lot of the divisions over secondary and tertiary doctrinal issues, um, if we're honest, division is a luxury of victory. You have to win first. Right? So when Christodum is reigning, you know, like John Bunning again to use him, when, when Christodum is walking in her, you know, her glass slippers and well adorned and everybody is on the sidelines clapping and applauding and praising her, right? [0:20:30] Rebecca Hargraves When Christodum is in, when, when, when Christodum is hot, um, you know, when, when you have a, [0:20:34] Dave Reilly a, a Christian nation, then that's when you can afford to have, you know, uh, main streets and, you know, downtown and every single town in the country and there's 50 different churches. There's, you know, first Baptist church and second and 14 and the, 47 and the Methodist church and the, you know, like four or five different, you know, Presbyterian churches and there's Catholic church, there's an Episcopal church, there's, you know, all the, like, and what that really symbolizes is that's, that's a, um, that's proof positive that, uh, at one point, we were a Christian nation and, and how, how's that proof? It's proof because it's only when Christodum is so dominant and, and so permeated in the entire society The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed that you can afford to have an individual separate local church for every, single, you know, theological nuance. And so for me, I'm like, dude, right, right now I'm post-millennial. So I'm, I'm actually bullish on not just Christ winning in the bottom of the ninth after the church gets its butt worked, but I actually think the Christ head of the church is going to win through his body, the church on earth progressively, gradually in this temporal age that the church is going to be victorious, like a little bit of leaven working through the whole batch of dough, like a mustard seed growing into an all earth encompassing tree, uh, that said, just like the stock market, right? You can be bullish and say, well, the stock market always goes up, you know, if you pan out far, far enough looking at 20 years, 30 years, 100 years, uh, but there can be some significant dips along the way. And I think it's the same with Christodum. I think it's the same, even if you're post-millennial and, and more positive in your eschatology. And so for me, I'm, I feel like we're in a dip. I think we're in a hell of a dip. Um, not just, oh, the last four years, no, like I think like a 253, 100 year dip, really, really significant. So my point is, in that moment, I don't think it's necessarily ideal as a timeless principle, right? You have to be timely. The sons of Isaacar knew the times and they knew what Israel should do. Right? So there's something for that timely versus timeless. So in a timeless sense and in all ages and all places and all times, I wouldn't say like, hey, you should have paid about just some credo about just in the same local church, you know, context. Um, but in a time where you're in a post-Christian society, you're being invaded by Muslims, you're run by Jews, you know, women are in charge of everything. Um, and in a moment like that, when you're murdering babies by the millions, um, then I would say, oh, you know what? This might be one of those moments where we need to practice the, the term that I would use is baptismal Catholicity, lowercase seed Catholicity. Um, and so that's kind of what our church is looking at and moving towards is like, how can we accommodate, you know, guys on both sides of the aisle, pedo Baptist, credo Baptist. So yes, we are on paper, um, a Baptist church, and yes, I do personally affirm, uh, the 1689 confession of faith, um, but I'm not autistic. [0:23:25] Rebecca Hargraves Right. A lot of our audience, um, and I'm seeing these comments in the live chat right now, [0:23:29] Dave Reilly but we have a lot of, uh, agnostic, atheistic, pagan, um, yeah, yeah, but, but race first white people that I, I think are absolutely integral to the movement, to furthering the dissident, right? [0:23:44] Rebecca Hargraves And, and like you talked about with the mustard seed, um, what is the place and how do we unify with people on this front? Because what you said about Christianity, it, even though I'm Catholic, [0:23:53] Dave Reilly kind of Catholic, I'm only right now. Um, I do need to go to mass. I do need to go to mass. I do believe [0:23:58] Rebecca Hargraves what you said about Christendom, but more as it relates to race, like I believe if we're a homogenous, [0:24:05] Dave Reilly white country that we can deal with these divisions later. Let's get there. So how do you square that circle? How do you deal with the issue of race, um, when Christianity is so overwhelmingly welcoming? Well as a Christian pastor, let me give you, uh, the incredible gift of losing half of your audience. Is that okay? Please. We punish our listeners all the time. Oh, or the guys who are, um, you know, ethnic, a pagan, ethno nationalist, um, but I have no doubt they are very J-pilt. Uh, rejecting Christ is the most Jewish thing you can do. Based. True. Um, and if you really want to hold with your four pagan The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed traditions, um, the most, you know, common tradition of every pagan white ethnic, you know, society over the centuries is converting to Christianity. Yep. So get with it. Get with it. Uh, but to answer the question, to be fair, um, I think we have to have categories, right? Evangelicals are terrible at this. And I am for better or worse. I mean, that would be technically the category that I fall into, um, although I am quite disgusted, uh, with my own camp on, uh, pretty much every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Uh, but evangelicals really struggle to walk and chew gum at the same time. So we have to think in categories. Uh, so when it comes to, um, alliances, when it comes to unity, and those, those kinds of things, how can we partner together? Um, I think the answer is it's, it's not, um, this overly, you know, purity spiraling. Right? We've had enough beautiful losers, right? And not just with the Neocons and politically speaking, but religiously speaking Christians by and large Catholics, you know, and Protestants have been beautiful losers. And I, I don't think we can afford, uh, to keep losing beautifully. Like, look at him. He did a triple aerial, you know, axle as he fell on his own sword and, and blood out and died. Like, we can't, we got to stop doing that. And so, um, one of the ways I think to avoid that is to be mature enough, uh, to know the times like the sons of his, a car and what Israel should do and to be able to think in categories. So, um, I think, you know, you could use different labels, but one set of labels, a framework that I'll use is brothers, friends, co-belligerents, brothers, friends, co-belligerents. So like, you guys, um, you would not be able to be members in my church and you wouldn't want to, you know, so I'm not, like, I'm not picking on you. I think you're, I think you're great people from what I, from what I can tell. And I want to be able to be a member in a Catholic church, right? So it's, you know, it's a two-way street. You could. And, you know, both of us could, you know, but, but some concessions would have to be made. Um, didn't either of us are willing to make. So, so my point is like, um, so therefore I hate you. Not, see, that's what we have to stop doing. We [0:27:01] Rebecca Hargraves have to stop being so autistic. And so, um, it's, it's, it's, um, idealism. Yeah. Idealism is not [0:27:09] Dave Reilly helpful. Not, not when you're back is against the ropes, not when you're losing, and you need to win. You can't afford to be ideal. Like, I know that this is super nerdy, but you guys had, like, Lord of the Rings sounding music, you know, with the intro. So I feel like I'm in good company. Like, when, when you're overwhelmed by orcs at the city gates, and they outnumber you 10 to 1, then, then men and elves and dwarfs are going to have to fight together. So, brothers, friends, and cobalidrants. So I would say in, in that last category, cobalidrants, um, yeah, we can partner with people, um, not only just different denominations or different strings of, of Christianity, EO, you know, Eastern Orthodox Catholic, Protestant or within Protestantism, Anglicanism, you know, or Baptist or Presbyterians. Um, you, not only can you partner there, but you can even partner outside of Christianity. And people are going to be like, what? I can't believe it. Okay, look, for all the hypocrites, you know, the Christians watching, you know, who are idealists, um, have, have you ever voted for a non-Christian who ran as a Republican? I mean, how many people, you know, voted for Mitt Romney, right? Like, that's a, like, that's a double L. You got to take that L twice. You know, if you're the idealist that I'm talking about, you have to take the L in the sense that he's a Mormon, which is not a different strain within, you know, Christodum. Mormonism is, it's a Christological heresy. It actually, Mormonism believes that, you know, that Jesus is the first of created beings. He is not the creator who is forever praised, like they deny the Trinity. They deny the deity of Christ. And so, um, so, I mean, at that point, you might as well, in my opinion, vote for an atheist, but my point is this, um, people still did it. And I'm not even condemning that, right? If you have like some based, you know, conservative Christian on the block, then yeah, give him your vote. But, but if it's between, you know, some Mormon and a Muslim, yeah, I'm probably going to vote for the Mormon, because at the end of the day, if I move to Utah, a lot of my neighbors would not [0:29:12] Rebecca Hargraves The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed be Christian, but they also probably wouldn't steal my car. Yeah. You know, and so, so anyways, so to answer [0:29:18] Dave Reilly your question, where the, you know, ethno-pagan nationalist who's, you know, it's, you know, I think that European, um, you know, ancestry matters. But for them, they would, that'd be at the top of lists. And so for them, it's like, that's kind of all that matters. Um, but that guy, even though I have some profound disagreements, he's not going to be in the brother category. He's not necessarily even going to be in the friend category, but he can be a cobaligerent. And so, I think we can partner instead of, instead of this all or nothing mindset of, can we partner on everything? If not, then we can partner on nothing. I just think that that's, that's idealism. That's just, that's unhelpful. So then the question would be like, okay, what can we partner on? Okay, we want, we both want to punish theft. We both want to stop immigration. We both, like, so partner where you can partner. Right. Yeah. No, I mean, I think you've, you've taken a really healthy view of this, of this stuff. I mean, based on, you know, the content that I'm seeing from your podcast, from your channel, um, you know, your tweets, ultimate identity in Christ, does not render the question of an earthly identity or an earthly national identity. Moot, this is a good example of the Jesus Jew. You know, I guess there's been this trend among Christians. Basically, since I've been alive at least, and I'm sure it goes back to the boomers, where all, you know, especially like the modern Zionist evangelicals, they, they say that, you know, your race, your heritage, your nationality, does not matter whatsoever, at all, you know, a black person in, you know, sub-Saharan Africa is exactly identical to a white person in America, because we're all one in Christ. Right. And then they'll go and support Israel as they like bomb little children and stuff like that. But, you know, I do think that there is a kind of healthy balance. We've been seeing this also, you know, from the Catholic side, specifically a guy named American Reform on Twitter, who's done an excellent job going back through Catholic social teaching about the reality of race, about, you know, the national distinctions that happen. And, you know, I think that the, the pagans kind of get on Christians butts a little bit, in a way that is kind of unfair, because Europe was Christian for, I mean, even Catholic for, you know, 1900 years. And we had nations, we had nationalism, we defended our borders, we had the reconquista, you know, and it's only this kind of post-World War II consensus, the liberal new religion, it's only since that has come about that we have really kind of started to commit suicide on mass. I mean, I don't think that theologically, this is even very confusing, because it can all be explained by God made different races and then borders and nationality and cultures. So I was, so how, how is this such a, I think that you can definitely be a race realist and be Christian, I don't think they're at all. I don't see them, yeah, I don't see how they're opposed. I mean, and you can even look at these stories like, was it the Tower of Babel, right? And isn't what it is that we're doing today in America, basically a modern incarnation of Babel, right? We're trying to take all of these people together, trying to, you know, build our AI, super god computer thing that will make all the decisions for us. It's striking when you see it put that way. Part of the problem real quick with the Tower of Babel is just terrible exegesis, which is really, you know, it's a modern way of interpreting the scripture, it's gay race communism, you know, I suggested on to the text rather than exegy to read out of the text. But with Babel, for instance, people look at that and they'll say, well, look, this is a judgment, right? So like God comes and he scrambles up their languages so that the people ultimately abandoned their project, you know, they divide and go to different places within the earth and become distinct peoples. And people say, well, look, this is God's judgment for their pride. And it is, you know, there is a sin of pride, but there's really at least, I mean, you could flesh it out even more, but two primary sins, not just one, two, one is they said, you know, let's build a tower that extends to the heavens and make a name for ourselves, right? So one is they're wanting to exalt themselves to the same level if not above God. They're wanting to attain to deity is the same as, you know, the woman in the garden, you know, in Genesis chapter three, you know, if you eat of this fruit, then you will be as God, right? You'll know as God knows. And so she wants to attain omniscience. She wants to attain, you know, God-like status and wisdom. And so it's that sin, the sin of pride and arrogance and wanting, man wanting to exalt himself to the status of God. But the second thing that I think people look over is they also say, let us build a tower of the stretches of the heavens that we might build a name for The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed ourselves so that we will not be scattered over the face of the earth. And I think what people will miss is that, you know, the dominion mandate in Genesis chapter two before sin enters the world and a pre-lapsarian world. God gave the commandment this this dominion mandate that man should be fruitful and multiply and till the earth. And so it was always God's design, even pre-send and the dominion mandate carries over after sin. It's still the cultural mandate given to mankind before sin after sin. It hasn't changed. And that mandate is to be fruitful and to multiply but also to fill the earth. And so, you know, if you think of it like this, and this requires a little bit of like philosophical, you know, it's not it's not strictly exegesis, but philosophical theology. [0:34:54] Rebecca Hargraves What do you think would have happened if Adam had never sent? Well, I think would have happened. [0:34:59] Dave Reilly What would have happened if they're obeying the command of God? They're not eating of the fruit, you know, but they're also obeying this, you know, this dominion mandate. They would have been fruitful. They would have multiplied. They would have spread out and filled the earth. And over time naturally, providentially, people would have been in different places. Some people would have been, you know, in islands and seafaring people. Some people would have settled in mountainous regions. Some people would have settled in plains, you know, and and been more agricultural. You know, some people would have been hunters and some people would have done this and done that. And over time, without God scrambling their languages, I think, you know, unique dialects would have formed by people would have spread out. And maybe there's, you know, a pilgrimage that happens, you know, once a decade or even once a century, you know, as time expands and goes on, where, you know, once every 100 years, everybody goes back to pay homage to Adam and Eve, you know, your great, great, great, great grandparents, because sin never entered the world. And, you know, the Bible teaches that, you know, through sin death. So they wouldn't have been death. So Adam and Eve would still be alive. And so, you know, maybe once every 100 years, you go back and you visit them. But again, over time, I think dialects would have formed dialects would have became, become languages. There would have been different strengths and weaknesses among different people and different skills and different knowledgees and all these. You eventually would have had distinct peoples. The way that I see babble, in other words, is that there are two sins. One is arrogance, exalting yourself to the status of God. But the second is actually wanting to rebel against the dominion mandate. God said, be fruitful, multiply, go and fill the earth. And they're saying, let us build this tower of the heavens [0:36:29] Rebecca Hargraves to make a name for ourselves so that we will not have to obey God. We will not be scattered over the [0:36:33] Dave Reilly face of the earth. They're wanting to congregate when God explicitly commanded in the garden that they should not congregate, but rather fill the whole earth that they should spread out. And so what God does in babble, it is a judgment, but it's a judgment containing mercy as many of God's judgments are. So it is a judgment on its face, a judgment for their sin of pride. He disrupts and destroys their, you know, their arrogant, you know, project of trying to ascend to God like status with this tower. But he also, in his mercy, simultaneously judgment, but also mercy, in his mercy, he's actually using this supernatural event of scrambling their languages to, as a catalyst, to simply accomplish what I believe would have been accomplished otherwise and should have been. It was actually the goal to be accomplished otherwise, but to do it quickly instead of providentially over time. So I think that babble, what we miss with babble is that God is actually, yes, he's judging the sin of pride, but he also is a judgment coded with mercy. He's also getting mankind, his image bearing creatures back on the original track, faster knowing that they're because they're disobedient rebellious. They're not going to The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed do it through obedience. And so I'm going to super naturally do it with this cataclysmic event. And so, so that being said, if you don't view babble in that way, then you'll actually, you'll be reading, you know, the story of, you know, Genesis chapter 11 with babble. And you'll be thinking, these are the good guys, you know, or, you know, to steal manate, you'll be thinking, well, you know, the only thing they did bad was, was their pride. But if you could, you know, congregate and stay together and have a, you know, globalistic one world, you know, government, then everybody speaks the same language. If you could do that, you know, without the hubris, without the arrogance, then that would be really good. But you have to see it again as two failures, two cents, not just one pride, but also not wanting to spread out and be distinct peoples, which I do believe was the intended goal. And so God's judgment was a judgment towards pride, but also a [0:38:34] Rebecca Hargraves mercy towards getting us back on track with a, you know, a catalyst speeding it up with the original [0:38:41] Dave Reilly dominion mandate. So different nations are good and different peoples are good. And because, you know, I'm a Christian and I love the Bible. I look at Revelation. I look at the, you know, the end goal. And it's like, you know, before the Lamb, we're all going to be worshiping God together in unity. And we're going to see every tribe, tongue, and nation represented. And I like that. Diversity, heaven is great. You know, why? Because, because there's no more sin. So it's okay. I don't have to worry about, you know, diversity, you know, stealing my car. So that's so one, there's no more sin. But here's the irony. You don't have diversity in the end. If you don't maintain diversity now, right? You don't, you don't get every tribe, tongue, and nation. You know, if Jesus carries, we don't know when he'll return. It could be tomorrow, but it could be a thousand years. I tend to think it's going to be a while. It's been 2000 years already. Everybody who's that, you know, Jesus is coming back next Thursday has been wrong again and again and again. It could easily be another thousand years, 2000 years, 5000 years. So if Christ chooses the Father chooses for [0:39:50] Rebecca Hargraves Christ to Terry in his final physical return and the final resurrection of the dead and the culmination [0:39:55] Dave Reilly of human history and all these things. And, and we don't beat back against gay race communism, then you actually don't get diversity in heaven. Now, you're not going to have every tribe, tongue, and language. It's, it's just going to be this soup. You know, now speaking of pride and hubris, which we were just talking about. We haven't talked about Jews enough. Well, they have their own word for it. It's Hutzpah. Hutzpah. You got to get that in, in there. Chutzpah. Recently, I don't know if you've seen this video, you probably have, speaking of pride, Mike Huckabee or Ambassador to Israel was recently, I guess, meeting with some sect of Orthodox Jews talking about anti-Semitism. And we've got the clip. We're going to play the clip. We're going to talk about the clip. This is unbelievable. Let's see. The Ambassador has a very interesting [0:40:49] Cameron M view of anti-Semitism. Yeah. Where she grew up in America. There was anti-Semitism, of course, [0:40:56] Dave Reilly live experience, of all experience. The Ambassador has a very interesting view. He says people, you can't understand that. It's a people who are anti-Semitic. It's because they're against God, they're against their bachelors. And we are represented as his people, and that's why they're anti-Semitic. The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense. Interesting view. It's interesting view. It's another view that, since we've seen it, it's chosen people, so people are very, who are you? Where are you, [0:41:30] Rebecca Hargraves where are you taking big shots? So the people. And that's part of it is that because you are the chosen people, given a chosen place for a chosen purpose. And if someone is angry at God, he'll be angry at [0:41:50] Cameron M the people who represent him. So I tell people, anti-Semitism is irrational. There's no reason for it, [0:42:00] Dave Reilly unless you understand the spiritual reason, which is what I believe is that the heart of it. It is not the left versus the right. It is good versus evil. It is the creator versus those who rebel against [0:42:16] Rebecca Hargraves the creators. Well, the irony of that is that I agree with him in that this is a spiritual battle, and we should be opposing those who are in rebellion against the creator. But that is [0:42:30] Dave Reilly Jews. Those are the, he's describing Jews. Well, here, and just to kind of follow that up, I don't know why this is not loading for me right now. Maybe it's like, we'll get banned from YouTube before our internet is also in rebellion. Yeah. Starlink, hello, Elon. But earlier today, video has emerged, and I don't get this. Why aren't you playing? Please play for me. Oh, well, anyway, the point is Israel, the modern state of Israel, bombed a, what was this? A medical complex, the NASA medical complex in Southern Gaza. And as rescue crews arrived to start evacuating and helping the injured people, they did it again. Israel did the double tap. They bombed again, basically murdering everybody in the frame on live television. And then you've got Mike Huckabee coming out saying, oh, well, it's just completely irrational. Well, A, no, it's not irrational. We have some issues here with our money and our state backing, essentially, a genocide of people in the Middle East. It's been going on since 1948. But at the same time, you've got a supposed Christian, Mike Huckabee, who's talking about how the Jews are God's chosen people, God's representatives. And these are the people that clamored to have Jesus Christ nailed on a cross, right? These are the people that shouted, give us Barabbas, give us revolution against the Romans that killed the logos incarnate. So what is your take on this? And have you always had the views on Israel and Zionism that you currently hold now? Is this a recent development that's kind of happened since October 7th? Can you talk to us through a little bit of that? Yeah, I came into these years probably in the last two years before October 7th, but no, I'm not from the cradle. I was born and raised in America. So I think most people in America have been Zionists by default. And so I think pretty much everybody who holds a similar position to the position I hold or you guys hold is someone who came into that position. They were evangelized ironically by Jews. The most convincing argument for anti-Semitism is Israel. Jewish behavior. Jewish behavior. Yeah, yeah. And so it's a more recent development for myself, but it was before October 7th, I had done already a nine parts long-form series just focusing on the theological side of the equation and less of the geopolitics and even less of the historical things like we didn't get into why are there ridges on the edges of coins? We didn't get into some of those things which are fascinating and like hilarious and sad at the same time. But just dealing with scripture, each episode we focused on the book of Hebrews. We focused on it was me and another individual, a friend of mine, you focused on Galatians, focused on Romans, Romans chapter 11, it's one of the kind of quintessential texts that Zionists would use to say, well, yeah, okay, maybe that's kind of the free safety. You get past every other Zionist argument and they say, yeah, okay, so I guess Judaism rejects Christ and hates Christ and they've done some terrible things throughout history The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but they're God's chosen people and even if there's not a physical land promise for them and these kinds of things in the future, there's still this futuristic spiritual revival and all the other nations of the world, all Christians are dependent on that, right? That we need God to save, convert Jews and when that happens, their conversion, the natural branch is being grafted back into this all of tree that that will mean this life from the dead, it'll be the kickstart of this global revival where all the other nations, the Gentiles will start flooding in and so if you care about your country, if you care about Brazil, if you care about El Salvador, you care about China, you care about Russia, you care about, if you care about the rest of the world, then you got to be rooting for the conversion, at least spiritually speaking, the spiritual conversion in our future of the Jewish people, otherwise you're not going to get it. So we've got with that and dismantled that because I don't believe that. I think that that's not what Romans 11 is actually talking about, at least not as it applies today and so we did all this kind of stuff. So my views predate October 7th and the theological framing and but yeah, it came later in life. I like everybody else, but I didn't think a whole lot about Israel one way or the other but I just by default accepted that they must be God's chosen people and those kinds of things. Yeah, I think with us it's a similar kind of thing. When I was in the music industry, I've told the story before I think but I was sitting at Recording Studio in Manhattan and I'm two o'clock in the morning and everyone's talking about how the grandparents fled the Brooklyn after the Bolshevik revolution and I'm like, wait a minute, am I the only non-Jewish guy here? Yes. And they're like, you aren't Jewish. I'm like, yeah, my last names are Riley. What do you think I am? I'm Irish Catholic. You know what I mean? And then you never worked again. And I never worked again. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what happened. But I didn't really think about it until I had my radio show back in 2017 and there was a boycott of it, a boycott of the whole radio station. And when you boil it down, the three main driving factors were three Jewish people that took issue with the fact that our morning co-host would make fun of Christianity and Mary and then we would make fun of his little hat or whatever, right? And so he was allowed to make fun of Christianity. But then we weren't allowed to make fun of Jews. And so when there was an opening, you know, these three key players in town used their power to pour gas on the fire. And then on the sudden, it's like, okay, we got a problem over here. And then, of course, over the past eight years seeing the Hebrew and Grenade society, putting all the pieces together. And even more recently, actually, the reason why we even have this show is because a local Protestant Zionist minister started calling around to some of my friends asking questions about my relationship with Rebecca, with Vincent James, RIP. He used to be on the podcast. He's retired now. But basically trying to make lists of people who were not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And I had tried to work with these people. I had several phone calls. We're going to play a clip, actually, of one of these phone calls. But it has become increasingly clear that those of us who are aware of the evil of Zionism, the state of Israel, the funding, the focus, it's like idle worship. So I want to play a clip of a supposed Christian pastor. And the question is, I guess, what would you say to someone like this who claims to be pro-life, who claims to be Christian, and then we'll go on to say something like this. [0:50:21] Rebecca Hargraves And I saw with my eyes what is actually going on over there, not what we're reading about or hearing about in the media. Right. And I think, and this for the record, I know that we've made this [0:50:33] Cameron M degree here. And David, please, you and I can disagree about a lot of things agreeably, I think. When I see what Israel is doing, I think they have every reason to do it. And I would do more. If it were me, I would do more. Because I would be telling them, give us back our hostages or your [0:50:54] Rebecca Hargraves dad. And they keep saying, you're attacking our babies. Then give us back our hostages and we'll stop. [0:51:05] Cameron M The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed I know that's rough language, but they have Americans. [0:51:13] Rebecca Hargraves Our hostages and we'll stop bombing you. Otherwise, I think Israel is absolutely holding themselves back. Because I'd probably blow the whole damn thing on them and say, well, there's not going to be such a thing as a West Bank if you don't give us back our hostages. But I know that's crazy. [0:51:36] Dave Reilly Talk. So I mean, I was shocked when he said that. Were you? I mean, I didn't say anything because I didn't know what to say, frankly. Quite the admission. Yeah, quite the, and again, you know, this is, you know, look at what, well, I can't play the clip. But I mean, here they are. They're like bombing a place, injuring people, and then bombing all the aid workers. They're, you know, depriving them of food, water, and fuel. And then when they go to actually distribute the stuff, they start opening fire and shooting children in the back, right? How is this Christian? How did this happen? Do you do battle against a person like this? Or do you ignore them? Like, what would your response be? Yeah. Well, I mean, the tide is turning significantly. I mean, like, you know, positive view towards Israel is probably at an all-time low, you know, the lowest it's been in my lifetime. And so I, you know, again, like I said earlier, you know, we all agreed that one of the most powerful arguments for anti-Semitism is Jewish behavior. And so I think as, as Israel continues to behave the way that it is currently, it's kind of, I mean, it's kind of like the left of the Biden administration, those kinds of things like that's, that's part of the reason why Trump, you know, won with as much of, you know, a margin as he did, was like, you know, one of the best arguments for Trump was Biden, you know, like, let the left, you know, have a little bit of a leash. And then, you know, and then this intimate from many people is never again, you know, it's funny, like all the, you know, James Lindsay's of the world is like, never again is now. And I would agree. But just, you know, with the Anakin meme face, you know, you're right. But not the way you think. I really do think that, you know, people are changing their minds. And it's, you know, it's picking up more, more momentum by the day that, like, this is, it's, it's inhumane, it's cruel. You're talking about genocide, you're talking about war crimes, you're talking about things that are universally despised by most people. And I think one of the best things that you can do is you can make arguments and you can respond or all those kinds of things. But one of the best things you can do is just continue to publicize it. Like that, that's the difference is media. We didn't have the technology that we have today. And, you know, and even when we did, there were gatekeepers, you know, and the gatekeepers still try, but they're, everybody's breaching containment. They're not able to, you know, to hold the line as they once did. You're not able to suppress speech like you once were. So I think, you know, with more and more freedom of speech, with more and more independent people in media and, you know, technology and people, you know, just showcasing who Israel is and the things that they're doing. The whole world is turning against them. And I think they know. And I think that's, it's weird. Because on the one hand, it's like, man, we, you know, if you were, you know, if you were Netanyahu, you'd be thinking, we'd better back off because we're, you know, we're getting some pretty bad press. But on the other hand, I think they realize that, you know, the boomers are going to be gone. Well, I don't know, we say that, but I, I have a sneaking suspicion they might build a base on the moon. I know, right? And, you know, find a way to live forever. So I don't know, like people have been saying the boomers can be gone. And I, you know, I'm not convinced. I feel like somehow they're going to find the fountain of youth, a partner with Peter Thiel, you know, and just upload their consciousness, you know, transhumanism, whatever they like. They'll find a way to make sure that, you know, Gen X and millennials are forgotten, you know, in, you know, all of eternity. But assuming that the boomers actually do die, Israel's toast. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to support them. Maybe train is coming to a screeching halt. So my point is, I think Israel on the one hand, they're like, dude, like, you know, we're getting terrible press. On the other hand, I think they know the days are numbered. They actually have a very short window before all of a sudden, like, it's going to be a lot of millennials in charge. It's going to be a lot of groypers in charge. It's going to be, and The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed I think they know, oh, snap, like if we're going to do something, we've got to do it now. Yeah. Yeah. That brings us. I've got the two last kind of follow-up questions. We're Nick Flentes. You've been very outspoken in your support of him. You know, we've had a couple of priests on our show that are very supportive of James Modzley. You know, I think that this kid is, I don't know, man, like, there are moments where I think, like, this kid was like anointed for this period of time to be doing what he's doing, saying what he's saying. There's times when he's, like, you know, giving a political speech on the sudden. It's like more intense than any sermon I've ever heard from like a priest. And it's just like, wow. So I guess, has there been, have you had any backlash for coming out and supporting this young man and supporting groipers and this whole kind of America first, dissident and right movement? How have you navigated that? Yeah. So I'm pretty committed to a radical strategy that upsets a lot of people. My strategy is this, I support everything that I agree with and I don't support the things that [0:56:59] Rebecca Hargraves I don't agree with. Wow. Right. Like, I have that position. I hold that position, not just with [0:57:07] Dave Reilly Nick, but I actually, I know this is again, radical, but actually hold that position as a, like, a universal one size fits all for everyone in all the world and in all time periods. So I agree, and I'll publicly say it, I agree with everything the Nazis did that I believe, according to the word of God, was moral and good. And I disagree with everything that the Nazis did or did not do that does not agree with the word of God. I actually hold that view towards, you know, stalling. I hold it towards Mussolini. Like, I, it's a radical position. I know. So all that being said, yeah, I have publicly said because here's the thing. Again, it's my theology. It's my faith in Christ and, and my commitment to, to God's word as infallible and true. That, that causes me, you know, to do things that upset people a lot of the time. But one, one of the biblical principles that I, I want to submit to and I want to obey is the scripture that says to give honor to whom honor is due. And the easy thing to do, because I, I see guys doing it with me. So I, I think I'm maybe just more sympathetic towards a guy like Nick than, than a lot of other people are. I think a lot of people don't have sympathy because they, they can't [0:58:29] Rebecca Hargraves relate and they can't relate because they've never been right. They've never been right. And they [0:58:36] Dave Reilly certainly have never been right early before other people, you know, before, you know, putting their finger in the wind and seeing, you know, like, so a lot of people, like, they're quick to judge because they're not able to relate at all because they've always been freaking wrong about everything. [0:58:51] Rebecca Hargraves That's why Nick is so dangerous. I don't know how you can be sympathetic towards Nick. [0:58:55] Dave Reilly Well, I can see why you don't see that because you've never exercised courage in your life. You've never been right in a prophetic sense ahead of time in your life. Now, for me, and it's the grace of God, it's not, you know, not to boast in Joel, but by the grace of God, I actually know what that feels like. I know what it's like to be a minority and to be persecuted and hated and told to shut up and slandered and mocked because not because you were wrong, but because you were early. Like, I told Nick this, you know, talked him on the phone and I told him, you know, just trying to, like, as a pastor, right? I'm a pastor. He's, he's a person made in the image of God within eternal soul. And so I was, I was trying to, to encourage him. And I said, Nick, I said, one of the best things that you have going for you is that The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed you're young, right? He's, you know, he's 27 years old. If he's not assassinated, which we should pray that the Lord protects him. Amen. But if he's not assassinated, I mean, Lord willing, he has 50 years, 40 years, easily a public life. And I said, one of the best things that you have going for is you actually have enough time for the tide to turn and to actually be appreciated before your debt. Most guys with courage are appreciative. They are. Once they've been safely buried under six feet of dirt, see the way that cowards work. And that is the vast majority of humanity. Let's just be honest, 95% of people are cowards, right? Like this idea, like, well, everybody's a leader. No, they're not. Of course, they're not. Most people are NPCs. Most people are followers. Most people are cowards. They don't have the grit. They don't have the spine. They don't have the virtue to actually lead. They don't have courage. And so most people, therefore, are actually afraid of courage. Courage is repulsive to them. They're disgusted by courage. They have a natural instinctive aversion towards courage. And they only appreciate courage once it's dead. They only appreciate courage once it's safe to appreciate. And, okay, well, you're a pastor. Give me, you know, give me a Bible example of this. Well, what did Jesus say to the Pharisees and the Sadducees and all these religious, you know, Jewish leaders? He said, you're just like your fathers. Your fathers, they're the ones who killed Jeremiah. And I say, like, there has a prophet ever been put to death outside of Jerusalem. Jerusalem is the city that kills the prophets. It's not unique to me. You guys have a rich, long standing centuries, long tradition of hating anyone and everyone who speaks for God. But here's the thing. He said, your fathers killed the prophets. And then you build tombs and memorials to [1:01:36] Rebecca Hargraves honor them. So yeah, you appreciate Jeremiah after he's dead. But your fathers killed Jeremiah. [1:01:43] Dave Reilly And you've never had a living prophet that you've ever received. And so too, here I am, Christ speaking, adds the capital P prophet and the proof that you're just like your fathers, you think, Oh, well, we wouldn't have killed Jeremiah if he came in our day. Well, one who is greater now than Jeremiah is standing in your midst and you are seeking to kill me. You're not just to chip off the old block in terms of your, you know, your ancestral human fathers, but you really resemble your true father, John chapter 8, the devil. He was a liar and a murderer from the very beginning and so are you. You're bearing false witness against me lying and you're seeking to kill me. You're trying to murder me. So all that being said, what's my position on Nick Fuentes? At the same position I have on every human being in the world. My position is the things that I disagree with, I disagree with, but the things that I do agree with, if he's someone who has been right, someone who has been courageous, someone who has been early, my Bible says to give honor where honor is due. So I'm not just going to quietly agree with him, hijack and copy all of his positions and take the credit for myself like a sleaze ball. Instead, I'm going to start saying some of these things and anything that Nick was one of the first guys to say that I actually want to tip that hat. I want to publicly, despite how it, how it might muddy my own reputation, despite what it cost, I just think it's the right thing to do. So I want to be able to say publicly, you know what? This guy had his life blown to pieces by Ben Shapiro, by all the Neocons, by Prager U, by Charlie Kirk, by this guy, that guy, he was a 17-year-old kid and he started off wanting to be the good guy and when everybody hates you, when everybody lies about you, when everybody says that you're a bad guy, you know what happens? Unless you are seasoned and sanctified and older and mature, the vast majority of people, when everyone says you're the bad guy, you usually lean in. You just, you're like, well, screw it and you play the heel. And so I think that there are like people like, so you agree with this clip and they'll go and find the worst, you know, clip from Nick, you know, from three years ago or two years ago or in some cases two weeks ago, you know, usually at the end of the show when he's, [1:03:57] Rebecca Hargraves you know, going off on the super chats, you know, and all that kind of stuff, you agree with this The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed [1:04:01] Dave Reilly and my position would be, no, no, I would not say that. If I would say that, you'd hear me say, I don't say those things. I don't speak that way. I don't hold that position. But here's the bottom line. He was right. And he deserves credit. And here's the thing, I actually believe that Nick, I don't think he's a monster. I don't, I think he's a human being. And I actually believe not just that he was right and that we should give him credit. I'm more interested than just giving him credit. [1:04:31] Rebecca Hargraves I'm actually interested. I want to see Nick by God's grace. I want to see him reformed. I want to see [1:04:38] Dave Reilly him mature. I want to see him grow. And I'm not saying that in a patronizing way. Nick is my superior in geopolitics. He's my, he's my superior in so many ways. So I don't want like, oh, you know, hey kid, like no, like that, that's, that's, that's arrogant. That's patronizing. I have learned by listening to him. I have learned multiple things from Nick. He is beyond me. He is my superior in this realm and this realm. But as a pastor and some other arenas, like character, I don't want to just give him credit, but I actually want to see him grow. And I think that one of the ways to do it ultimately is the Holy Spirit and his work. But one of the ways to do it is to come alongside a young man like that. It's just been slandered, left and right for years and years and say, hey, you know what? You're angry because, because people, people were cruel to you. They lied about you. They slandered you and still to this day. All, all the sentiment has turned all of a sudden. And, and so Matt Walsh has he's, you know, repeating your talking points, you know, four years later, five years later, he's going back and, and, and tipping the hat and acknowledging, you know what? Nick fontes he was right about a thing or two, right? Wrong. Like, no, so everybody's echoing you in this area, this area, this area, this area, no one's acknowledging you. And then fact, they're still slandering you. Oh, well, he's a pedophile. Oh, well, he's, he's a fad or he's gay. And so I'm thinking like, one, because I want to honor God, not, not, not that my chief goal is not to honor Nick. It's to honor God. Give honor where [1:06:17] Rebecca Hargraves honor is due. And then also because I want to honor God, I'd like to see Nick. I'd like, [1:06:23] Dave Reilly it's funny. Like, I'm tempted to even do a series or something, you know, that like redeeming Nick fontes. And, and, and what I'd like to, and, and one of the ways that I think that that's going to happen, like, I mean, you see this throughout history, like whether any great leader, there's, there's this moment where an older man comes alongside and not patronize it, recognizing that this young man is a savant. He's, he's a monster generation guy. The older man doesn't have the innate giftings that the younger, but he, but he is seasoned. He's older. There's some wisdom there. And, and, and what he does is he doesn't just beat him up. He doesn't just, um, just, just, you know, humiliate him and correct him. You know, but he comes along and he puts his hand on his shoulder and he says, um, hey, you were right. You are gifted. I see this in you. There's greatness. A spy towards it. A spy. And so that's, so I actually think that, I think that Nick is growing. There's, there's more growth to, to have it, but I think he is growing in terms of character. I think he's recognizing things, you know, like some of the clips. I know it like, it's baby steps, you know, granted, but he's like, you know what, we got to stop saying the inward on the show. You know, it's, it's baby steps, but that is, that's, I mean, that's growth. That, that is, [1:07:36] Rebecca Hargraves that's something, something's happening. Um, I think he's cleaning up. I think he's maturing. He's, The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed [1:07:41] Dave Reilly he's not compromised. He's not moving left in terms of his positions, but in terms of his presentation, he's realizing like, okay, maybe I don't want to just do a show, you know, forever. Like, what, what if, what if one, like, what if one day actually want, want to run for office or something? Like, I, I do need to grow up. I do need to mature. And I think one of the, the big things it's going to help him along the way in that journey is, um, some guys actually, um, instead of attacking him all the time, coming alongside and pointing out the good and affirming it. That's, that's what father figured, like, as an adopted kid, like, I'm, I'm only, when I've made tons of mistakes, but I would have been so much worse. I would have been a total degenerate if it had it been for my parents, adopting me, Christian parents. And, and the best thing that my dad, my adopted father did for me was not just correcting me when I was wrong. I needed that also. We need correction, um, but, but he didn't just correct me. He affirmed me. He was, and he wasn't ashamed of me. Yeah. He wasn't embarrassed of me. Even when I screwed up, my dad was a pastor and, and there were times as a kid, where I'm, you know, you're, you're a PK, you're the pastor's kid, and I'm running around as a little kid in the sanctuary knocking over chairs and probably, you know, like, and, um, he never, I, never saw my dad embarrassed of me. Yeah. And if he corrected me, he did it privately. He did it privately, and he stood up for me. I, like, and he affirmed the good in me. And like, yeah, like, if, if you've been in media for 10 years, and no one's ever given you credit, no one's ever affirmed you, and everyone's called you a monster. Then is a self-fulfilling prophecy? Yeah, absolutely. You become, and it has been wonderful to watch Nick's evolution, especially the last few months, because I think he is getting that affirmation. And it's helping him grow. So I'm happy to see it. I was also going to say it's kind of a new phenomenon for a young kid, like 17. I mean, he's been in 10 years now, 27. He's grown up on stream. Yeah. How many people have had the pressure of having to, like, grow up anyway, right? That's hard enough as it is, let alone to be doing it live on air, basically. Right. It's like being a Disney kid or something. Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, I don't know. And to, to your point, you know, it's, it's not just Nick. It's also his followers. We've seen this up here. There have been a lot of young kids that have wanted to get involved in politics because of Nick because he's inspired them. I've seen hundreds of people convert to Christianity to Catholicism because of Nick. Right. And then to see people like that pastor we played or Jewish operatives up here that run around and they'll find these 18-year-old kids, 19-year-old kids, and then immediately start character assassinating them, shitting on their character, you know, ostracizing them from groups. And it's like, what do you think you're doing? Yeah. You're going, like, whatever radical you think they are, when you get done with them, they are going to be unstoppable. They are going to be more radical than they ever were before. We're going to get to super chats. So get your last minute super chats here. If you have any questions for Joel, last question, we got a super chat a couple of episodes ago. What are your thoughts on Pastor Doug Wilson? Because he's up here in Idaho. There was a big CNN piece that was done on Moscow, Christchurch, what he's doing down there. I wasn't sure if you guys were in the same, I don't think you're in crack or anything like the CREC, whatever the group that he does. But what's your take on him? I mean, I've generally had good experience when I was working for E. Michael Jones. We set up an interview with Doug Wilson. So it's like, okay, well, that's interesting. You know, like, bringing on Arch-Catholic anti-Semite E. Michael Jones, and I'm behind the camera there. And then, you know, everyone in his church that I've ever met, the gay branch and all these other people. They've been great. Yes, they have. But we've had super chaters that say that he's, you know, ex-communicating and doxing members of his church for supposedly being anti-Semite. So I didn't know if you had a relationship with Doug or if you knew anything more on the subject, our audience was kind of curious your thoughts. And of course, if Doug is out there, we'd love to have him on the show. Yeah, great question. Doug spoke at our conference last year. I believe in March or April. So it's been about a year and a half. And in the first, you know, couple early years of our podcast, he came on the show. A number of times, not like a dozen, but I can't remember three, four or five times. I've been Damasco. My wife and I back in 2020, actually in February, right before COVID hit and spent time in the Wilson's home and got to, you know, meet a lot of the Moscow Idaho people. And there's some of the kindest people that I've ever met. There's a lot of people who are frustrated with Doug right now who appreciate me and are mad at Doug. And so I have an answer to that. I'll give my thoughts, but first I'd be remiss. If The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed I'm going to sit here and defend the good and Nick Fuentes, and not, right, equal weights and measures, equal weights and measures. So Doug Wilson, I believe it was actually him, ironically, he said, a man's greatest credentials are not, you know, plaques and you know, diplomas on the wall, but the laughter at his family's dinner table. And I think that's true. And so say what you will about Doug Wilson, but he has three children who fear the Lord. And, you know, 20-something grandchildren who fear the Lord. He has a church of 1,500 people that he's pastored for 40 years. It is a healthy church. He's started, helped with a few other men to start, you know, a Presbyterian Denomination, the CREC, that represents a couple hundred or more churches throughout the world, predominantly in the United States. He was integral in kind of recovering the classical Christian education model and starting the ACCS, which is, you know, a group of multiple different schools at this point. It definitely hundreds, if not over a thousand, different classical Christian schools. He started a school there in Moscow, K through 12. He started to college, New Saint Andrews, the guy, say what you will, but he has been a formidable force. Powerhouse, or yeah, or Christodum. That said, Gabe Wrench, I consider him a friend. He's been a blessing. He was actually initially on our board with right response ministries. And so I'm incredibly grateful for him. I spoke at one of their conferences briefly on a panel for Christian nationalism a couple of years ago at a fight-life feast conference, which is a group of the guys, Gabe Wrench and some others from Moscow, put that annual conference on. And so I have a ton of respect, ton of love, ton of appreciation, but unfortunately the whole thing blew up, and I really think it's tragic because it's kind of one of the situations where it's like it doesn't have to be this way, but it is. And so what would happen behind the scenes, little inside baseball is we had a member in our church, who's still a member in our church, a member in good standing, loves the Lord, great guy, personal friend, and he's German. And so he grew up, born and raised in Germany and moved over to the States a few years ago, and he and his wife and children joined our church. And his German pastor, still in Germany, passed during the church there. It was a friend of his. He was in that church for six, seven, eight years, something like that. And so I felt like I've got a good relationship with my former pastor with friends, and he's kind of going down the rabbit hole, and of course the tea is silent. And kind of, because he's trying his natural affections, he's trying to like, okay, let God be true in every man alive. So whatever's true is true, even if it's not flattering to my ancestors. But at the same time, if there's propaganda and mainline consensus with history that's false, then by golly, I want to know. And so he's a German man. So his great grandfather was a Nazi. He was a fighter pilot flying planes. He wasn't involved in any camp or anything like that. And the reality is that most of these guys, they were Lutherans. And they're fighting for their country, you know, their families, their wives and kids are starving. Churchill cut off all the supply lines and the entire world, you know, they're fighting on every front, you know, great Britain and Russia, you know, and all that, you know, in America, of course, we enter the fray. We've never found a war that we didn't like, you know, especially if it's a war, you know, less a civil war. I mean, that we've had two civil wars. War war two was a civil war. It was European, you know, civil war. And then we had, you know, our own national civil war 80 years later. And so, you know, most of these guys, like his great grandfather, he's like, I think my great grandfather's a Christian. You know, what do you think, Pastor? And I was like, well, I don't know. Was like, was he like personal friends with Himmler, you know, was he like, you know, keeping the logs of, you know, how long it takes for frostbite to set in, you know, is he's watching Jews freeze in the snow or said, like, no, he's flying, you know, a plane and fighting for his family. He's a Lutheran. And it's like, yeah, then I think he's a Christian. I think that I think you're going to see him in heaven. And I think a lot of Germans all into that category. And we don't have to demonize everybody. You know, I think some of them did some things that were wrong. But I think the Bolsheviks did some things that were also wrong. And I would argue, worse. And so anyway, so it started like that. He's talking to his former pastor and he texts him a meme. Now I don't think it was the best idea. You know, but he's like, you know, he's my friend, you know, like they had that, you know, at least he thought they had that kind of relationship. He didn't think anything of it. And it was like a holocaust meme with like a little girl sitting at the at the dinner table in her mom, 1950s kind of style. And a little girl asked her mom, what's the holocaust? And the mom answers and says, it's the one time that Jews had to do manual labor. And so they called him. It's a classic. Yeah. And so anyway, so it was already out there in the ether. But here's the thing, he didn't even post it on social media. The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed [1:18:48] Rebecca Hargraves He texted it privately to his former pastor. And he texted it, not saying, I'm mocking however many Jews, [1:18:56] Dave Reilly whether it's six million or whether it's 278,000 or something in between. I'm kind of in between, guy, you know, but however many it was, he's not texting this insane. For every Jew, especially women and children who are innocent, right, it's different if they're actually Bolsheviks, right? That there are bad guys in war. And there is such a thing as just war theory and these kinds of things. But for every innocent Jew who died without a fair trial, I feel awful. He's not mocking. He's not mocking. So the pastor interpreted it as you're mocking the suffering of innocent people. And he's like, he's like, no, I'm mocking a historical event that for him, he's saying, I don't believe it happened, or at least, at least nothing close to what we're told. So he was mocking something that he's saying, I don't think this is real. But it was interpreted as you're mocking the suffering of people. And then all of a sudden, this private exchange finds its way into the next blog entry and podcasts from Doug Wilson. That's really lame. That's incredibly lame. Really lame. And so now Doug Wilson, I want to be accurate, he did not name this individual. And he didn't name me, but he said, you know, like, well, we have, you know, we have members in reform churches, you know, who are, you know, promulgating memes mocking the Holocaust. And it's like, number one, he never posted it. He texted it privately to a pastor. That pastor then gossiped to Doug Wilson and a few other individuals. And then all of a sudden, it's like in one notable reformed guy's podcast, it's in Doug Wilson's blog. And so then I, after it made, you know, made the entry in a sublimial kind of subtle way into like two or three different public pieces of content blogs and podcasts, I just, I was kind of, I was kind of upset. I was like, yeah, totally. I was like, forget this. So I just, I just put it on blast. And so I just did a podcast and I said, hey, this is what happened. This is what they're referring to in a passive aggressive way. This is exactly what happened. The person that the referencing is a member of my church. I love him. I don't believe that he's in sin and deal with it. And so then it became, you know, this really, really big thing. And then out of that, you know, you know, and again, taking Doug at his word. And I don't have a reason to, I'm not going to sit here and say he's a liar. I, you know, I, so I think he's telling the truth in this. I have no reason not to believe him. But it's, it's, you know, what Doug and some other leaders within the reformed Protestant world perceived as a, a, you know, neo-Nazi problem. Doug started using describing me, you know, he'd started you and then at that point, he was naming me and he was calling me Revoice for Nazis, which is a playoff of within the Presbyterian world. There was this, you know, conference, this movement called Revoice. It was never that large, but some people involved. And Revoice was basically a group that was saying it's okay to be gay as long as you don't act on it. I see you can sit there and fantasize about, you know, sleeping with a dude, you know, whatever you can even cuddle with your boyfriend as long as you don't, you know, as long as you don't sort of my similar way. Like, I'm not, not good, not good. But Doug is using that to describe me. So he's like, he started saying, you know, Joel Webin is a Revoice for Nazis, right? You know, so like basically, like, I guess, I guess insinuating like, you can have all the intentions. You can have all the motives. You can have all the fantasies and the thoughts. Just you can't act on it, which is really hypocritical because because that would, number one, it's just, it's just rude. But number two, it's, it's factually false because the equivalent of, you know, the, using that, that playoff of Revoice is like, well, this guy, it has gay affection, right? Homosexual affection for another man, but he's not going to act on it. Well, the equivalent over here of like a Revoice for Nazis would be, I've got guys in my church who want to physically harm Jews, but they're not acting on it. But I don't have guys in my church like I have guys in my church who think that some Jews or even perhaps many Jews in various time periods have been a serious problem. But I don't have anybody in my church who's saying, I want to go and hurt Jews, but I won't act on it. That would be the equivalent, so, so it's slanderous. It's actually slanderous. And so all this happens, and I defend this guy, you know, in my church, who like he's not a celebrity, he's kind of a little bit of a celebrity now, but, but he's not a celebrity. He's not, you know, a big name, or he's just a The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed guy in my church. And people, you know, people were shocked by it, because they're like, you had an in with Doug Wilson, who is kind of growing in popularity, to see an in, you know, documented in, like, you had an in with this guy, and this guy, these guys were at your conference, and you were this growing, you know, young man, you know, growing the prestige, and influence in the reformed world, and connections with these guys, and you blew it all up over one guy, one random guy that nobody even knows his name. Also, what he did was no big deal. Yeah. And my answer was, yes, and I do it again, because it's the right thing. And that's, and see, that's the thing that people I don't think realize are like, well, you know, Jews publicly, you know, saying, you know, positive things about Nick, because he just wants to claim. Well, no, I also stood up and defended the no name German in my church that, that, that only cost me, at least at the time, because it's just the right thing to do. So, whether it's a member in my church that nobody knows who he is, or whether it's Nick Fuentes on a generational run, you do the right thing. And so from that event, you know, like, so this is blowing up, and people are saying, well, there's an anti-Semitism problem within the reformed Protestant world, and then also Pete headseth, who is a part of a CREC church, was this was during, you know, him being, you know, grilled and everything like that, to, you know, to be confirmed for Secretary of Defense. And so, you know, he was a CREC guy, and so Doug Wilson, again, giving him credit. I have no reason not to believe him. He was thinking, well, one of the things that he might be interrogated over in his hearing might be, well, there's, he's an anti-Semite, you know, because he goes to a CREC church, and there's this within the reformed world. There's all these anti-Semites. And so, so then, you know, if it wasn't already this big enough ordeal, they, you know, dug in some other guys in the reformed world, you know, significant players came out with a statement, and they called it the Antioch Declaration. And the whole thing was basically saying, yes, Jews, you know, are not Christians, and they need Christ. There's only one way, you know, to salvation, you know, faith in Jesus. But, you know, there are all these different false religions and Judaism is not worse than any other false religion. And I was sitting there like, yeah, in the eternal ultimate sense, spiritually speaking, you reject Christ and you go to hell, whether you reject Him because you're a Muslim or reject Him because you're a Hindu or reject Him because you're a Jew or reject Him because you're an atheist or whatever it is. But to say that all false religions are equal with no disclaimer, it implies [1:26:25] Rebecca Hargraves that they're equal even in their temporal effects. And the reality is like, I mean, think about that [1:26:30] Dave Reilly for a second. Yeah. Temporally speaking, has Mormonism had, is many temporal negative effects as Judaism? Nope. Of course not. Of course not. That's insane. It's also like saying, it's also like saying that like every, every sin is the same. Like, you know, murder is the same as, you know, stealing a Cisco cup from like a cafeteria. Right. Exactly. And that's another common, you know, evangelical misnomers, I will all sin is equal on the side of God. No, it's not. All sin, if, if not repented of and covered by the blood of Jesus by grace through faith in Him, all sin is equal in its eternal spiritual consequences that it will separate you from God in eternity in the conscious tournaments of hell. Yes, not all sin is equal. However, in its temporal earthly effects, a white lie does not affect people here and now in the way that a serial killer does. And number two, even eternally, although all unrepentant sin will send you to hell, there is a hierarchy on earth. [1:27:30] Rebecca Hargraves Right. Egalitarian's hardest hit, hierarchy on earth, hierarchy in heaven. And there is a hierarchy [1:27:36] Dave Reilly in hell. Jesus says to one will be given a light beating, but to another will be given a more severe beating. He's talking about people who perish in their sin and go to hell. So even in hell, everyone will The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed be eternally separated from God in hell, but not everyone's torment. It'll be bad for everyone, but it will not be equally bad for everyone. God is just and because he's just, God punishes justly and because not all sin is equal, the punishment is not equal. And so you can apply that to sin, you can apply it to false religions that I did. So I went on the record and I said, I believe that Talmudic Judaism is uniquely pernicious. All false religions are bad, but I believe that this one is uniquely pernicious. And so they used exact language. It was very clear they were talking about me and others, you know, a few others that held that similar position and saying, you know, Judaism is not uniquely pernicious. All false religions are bad, but to say Judaism is uniquely pernicious is anti-Semitic. And so anyway, so it became this whole ordeal. So all that back to your question, what do I think about Doug Wilson? I think he's a Christian. I think he's been faithful. I think he's done a lot of good. And here's the thing, I'm trying, again, equal weight and equal measures. I try to be consistent. So all the way back in the beginning, I said, we can't be idealists, right, where it's just, you know, all or nothing. And I sometimes think that some of the guys who are, you know, in the noticing crowd, you know, that you and I are part of, they notice one thing, like what happened between me and Doug. And they would say, do you? Yeah, subversive op, you know, and so I see guys like, you know, rabbi Doug, you know, and it's like, look, I think he's wrong on this issue and I think it matters. And yes, I do think there are reasons. I don't think it's random. Right, Doug has Jewish family members. You know, he's 2% Ashkenazi, his wife is 13%. You know, her dad, I think it was his, her dad was 25. Her grandfather was 50 and was a Jewish rabbi, actually. So there's a little bit of an every single time situation going on. Oh, no. But you know, and he has, you know, he has partly Jewish grandkids and things like that. So there is some familial, you know, natural affections, which I just for the record, because again, equal weight and measures, I'm not going to demonize that. He is also in that. I care about my kids. He cares about his. So there is that, you know, and then also I do think that there's a play right now. I think there's a net. I'm just going to say it. There's a net con play. I was going to say, the net con connection with your own, the zoning. That's right. There's your own, her zoning play. There's so that, you know, there's a daily wire Andrew Klavin. He's done some stuff with it. So I think there's a strategic calculus. I think in Doug's mind, he's like Jews are not Christians. They need Christ, but we don't win without at least some kind of partnership with them because they're [1:30:27] Rebecca Hargraves so influential, especially in America. I think that's part of it. And if I'm wrong about that, [1:30:32] Dave Reilly then, you know, then take it with a grain of salt. I don't want to speculate too much. And then I know because he's, you know, using his own words, he's written about this. I think there's the familial piece of having, you know, Jewish relatives and that one I, I understand, you know, like if I felt like the whole world was souring on the Irish. Well, my wife is, you know, Irish and my kids are therefore part Irish. And because I have kids and I love them, they're part Irish. If the whole world was like, you know, every single time the Irish, you know, then, you know, then I might start getting a little nervous. You know, so I'm, so anyway, so I'm sympathetic in that regard. But my point is I can look at that and I can say this was an unforced era. It's a, I think it's a significant era. I think it unnecessarily divided the body of Christ. And I think you're wrong on the issue. And it's carving out a cover fire for certain individuals who are doing untold damage to our country, to our civilization and to the church. And yet, I can say that and I don't have to be an ideologue. I can say that and also say and you recovered classical education and, and you've built, you know, hundreds of churches and you've done this and you've done that and I've learned certain things from you and I'm grateful. So that would be my position on this. Well, thank you very much. Sorry. We are unfortunately, well, not unfortunately, but big thank you to the Rift TV for loaning out the studio for this interview today. But I do believe that there is a an interview that needs to take place. And so thank you so much for joining us, Joel. You can find Joel on X at right response M, right response to the letter M like ministry. Also his website right response ministries dot com. Joel, thank you so much for joining us. We would love to have a chat again in the future. Thank you, Joel. The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed We appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I'm honored. Thank you. All right. Cheers. And so we will get through some of these super chats on our own and unfortunately, we won't have any input in them, but it's okay. All right. So let me hold on a second. [1:32:43] Rebecca Hargraves I need to get a bigger TV up there. Well, Doug Wilson. No, uh, no bigger TV. No, Doug Wilson, [1:32:49] Dave Reilly like that, that is, oh, come on. Don't throw the baby out of the bath. No, absolutely not. Well, we will do that. We should try to get him on the show. It'll be good. We'll have a nice chat. Maybe we'll go down to Moscow, do a little interview with him. I mean, I think he's done a lot of good. I don't think that, you know, I don't think that we should let this one thing. One thing, it's the thing. It's pretty big. It's pretty big. It's the one thing. I'm trying to be very diplomatic. I'm just not feeling very charitable towards him. That is so lame. Yeah. Charity. Big deal. Anyway, off to your super chats today. Thank you very much for everybody who did super chat. You can get your last minute ones in at the backlash.net slash super chat. Weasley264 send five dollars love right response ministry. So happy when I found the Protestant LCMS church, which does not permit women pastors. Most traditional church I found in Pennsylvania so far. However, every pastor is a soft soy boy and elders are boomersionists. What do you go to the Latin mass go to go to a Catholic church? I don't know. I don't know how to help you in Protestant land. I mean, with with Catholics, it's it's pretty easy to find a good church whether or not they're they're saying the Latin mass is pretty pretty good measuring stick. And whether or not there are gay flags hanging up on the altar, that would kind of tell you whether or not you should head for the door. Bust insider sent five dollars enjoy right response ministries. Devon stack has a good point if any church has such a wide range of acceptable viewpoints on Zionism. How are they ever going to be effective as a tool to fight against it? Joel still seems afraid of moratism. Also is Antonio [1:34:31] Rebecca Hargraves a white? Who's Antonio? Devon stack stream this week was so good. And I felt like personally attacked because he was talking about retards on the dissident right that are saying that we should ally [1:34:42] Dave Reilly with Muslims to defeat Jews. And I was like, I said, I said that. Sometimes I have to listen to Devon stack stream. He reels your back and reels me back in. And I was like, Oh, I'm that retard. [1:34:56] Rebecca Hargraves That's me. It's like a retard finder found one right over here. Big mad lad sent five dollars. [1:35:01] Dave Reilly What is Joel's opinion on the millennial reign and the seemingly unfulfilled Old Testament prophecies? Does he think that it has already happened or will happen when Christ returns? You have to take scripture pretty unliterally to think that it has happened. I am not Joel. I do know that he considers himself a post millennial. Post millennial partial preterist is what he said in his recent interview with Dr. Taylor Marshall. So I don't know if that helps with the super chat, unfortunately. Sorry, but a bit of a scheduling error scheduling conflicts. Somebody had to get in over to our TV. So I can send him a text. How about that? I will screenshot this and maybe on Wednesday, we will talk about that more book track roofs and $10 Matthew chapter 24 and Revelation chapter 7. Solve this problem. This is your homework this week, guys. On the race issue, Joel, what shows do you recommend for women are active, remove no fault divorce? I have shows for women. What are your shows The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed [1:36:03] Rebecca Hargraves for women? Okay, I'm into this true crime show called evil lives here and every other episode is [1:36:09] Dave Reilly like a white chick that got into a terrible situation with a minority and all of this could have been [1:36:14] Rebecca Hargraves prevented if her parents were just like don't date black guys. Based. Watch that show. Yeah, no fault. [1:36:23] Dave Reilly The force is evil and needs to be abolished. Agreed. That's awful. It ruins families. It's not good. We need to get rid of it. Big guy. Big mad lad. Send $5. The Bible never once mentions racism as being a sin. In fact, it doesn't ever say slavery is a sin. How have we got to the point where the church teaches this suicidal empathy where racism is the ultimate sin and we have to let in all [1:36:50] Rebecca Hargraves the third world? Juice. The Holocaust. Yeah, that's exactly how that happened. Yes. [1:36:55] Dave Reilly Now, the Catholic Church, Christians, and general, we've opposed chattel slavery. I mean, that's out there. It's so retarded though. It's like if God wanted us to mesegeate in the different races, wouldn't he have made it so that there was no distinction amongst races? Yeah. They can all be refuted so quickly. Yes, obviously. Over on entropy, Castler 777, $15.03. Oddly specific. Thank you for the big super chat. There was no note attached to that. Let me just check here if there happens to be more super chats on entropy. It does this weird thing when I start the live stream. Ah, yeah, there is. The shadow bands send $10.00, always great to hear from Joel. Our denominational differences should not keep us apart. Yeah, I think that more and more, there's consensus forming that we need to find ways to work together and play nicely. And then when we win, we can argue. We can deal with it later. We can argue when we win. No mixing sent $5. Hey, white boys, stay away from Connie. Don't touch the wonton. Oh, somebody was saying, okay, somebody was saying to look this up in the lab chat, [1:38:09] Rebecca Hargraves and I wasn't able to do this. I'll look it up in Twitter. Okay. I sell it. [1:38:15] Dave Reilly Lineheart sent $25. Devin is, of course, correct to get on this for all the concern trolling about purity spirals. If we fail to mention our standards, and there is no movement in the first place, we stand again nothing by allying with our enemies of any faction. Yeah, true. I mean, I think that you know, it's not just a matter of like the enemy of my enemy is my friend type of thing, but I mean, there are there is distinctions and I mean, among the divisions in the right, you know, there are better and worse. And you know, the other thing that has kind of stuck with me, I watched a, I watched a little documentary by a zoomer historian. Oh, yeah. Recently. I just invited him on in the show. Oh, great. Yeah. I mean, it was, it just, it struck me, [1:39:01] Rebecca Hargraves you know, he was doing this history piece about the AH youth, you know, I'm talking about. And The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed [1:39:11] Dave Reilly the idea that he was in Germany at the time, all things to all people, you know, and when you, when you learn the history, there were like the Protestants, the Catholic monarchists. There were the right wingers. I mean, you know, Ernst Rome and he was gay and all these different people. And so to be able to build a coalition in a YMAR country that had been divided and those divisions sewn by Jews, specifically to prevent the people from ever getting together and exerting their will in their country, I just find that fascinating. Being all things to all people and finding ways to work together because no one faction, in my opinion, is going to slay this dragon alone. We need to work together. Anonymous sent $10 Christian identity is the solution for whites and recognizing that the Irish Welsh, Scottish, Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian and related Germanic peoples are literally the Israelites of the Bible and not the e to my Jews who have historically been our enemies. You know, it's interesting. There's a lot of Christian identity people up here. I mean, the Catholic Church does believe that Christians are the true Israel and I just don't, I haven't done the, I haven't done the homework on the historical race stuff. So whatever. Anyway, thank you for the big super chat, Mr. Anonymous. Let me quickly go over and see if I can sign it over here. While we're doing that. He's frigging flies. I know. I am so sorry. It's okay. I'd rather deal with the flies than be assaulted with the salt gun. Sheepers, creepers. It looks like we have been in a data with a bunch of people 820 hitting the button, but it doesn't look like we've received any real crypto super chats, which by the way is one of the best ways to send money to us with a message. The crypto super chat green thing. Because I just found out that was a YouTube takes like 30% of the, oh, speaking of, [1:41:13] Rebecca Hargraves we have super chats on YouTube. Son of a bitch. Here we go. Super chats on YouTube. Imperia sent $5 [1:41:22] Dave Reilly more shows just for me. Thank you for the big super chat. Thank you. Thunderstorm sent $9.99. The Jews worship the Canaanite goddess. She cana at the Whaling Wall in a Kabbalah sex magic ritual. Wow. That is true and scary. And our money, Jubilee, sent $50. Thank you for the big super chat. The backlash promotes libertarian commodity money as a solution to Shylox's user. But Germany's economic miracle occurred with labor-backed Fiat commodity money will largely be loaned with user. Question, will you platform user free reform guess? Sure. I mean, send us an email at info at thebacklash.net. I am unaware of anybody with the ability to get a state to back their money with labor or GDP or output. At this point, we've got gold. We've got silver. We've got Bitcoin. These are things that are at least scarce. They're tied to real-world things that can't be counted. Speaking of, we have to give a big shout-out to our one of our sponsors, Atlas Bullion. If you are concerned about the Fiat money system and where we are headed economically as a country, it's not looking very good. Atlas Bullion has a way for you to preserve your wealth into the future by stacking gold and silver in their monthly or biweekly or maybe even weekly. Do they do it? Monthly or bi-monthly. Gold and silver [1:42:50] Rebecca Hargraves subscriptions with plants starting as low as $55 and gold subscriptions starting as low as $200. [1:42:58] Dave Reilly You can start stacking precious metals, gold and silver. They can't be printed out of thin air, counter-fitted. There's no counter-party risk. It's a way for you to put your hard-earned labor into something that the government can't just print more of. They also have options for your kiddos if you'd like them to start stacking gold and silver and learn. The true power of sound money, hard money, real money. You can go to Atlas Bullion.com slash the backlash and every purchase you make there does The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed go to help keep this channel alive and bringing new content that you know and love. Romega on YouTube sent $9.99 without any message. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Who knows? We've got to give another big shout-out to Antelope Hill publishing. America's leading publisher that is fighting to keep history alive against the regime of anti-white censorship and to publish a new generation of dissident radical. Excuse me, I'm still getting over this cold. It's been like three weeks. 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Really? It's possible. Have you considered just like taking a road trip out to Rhode Island? That would be weird. Why not? Just show up. [1:45:25] Rebecca Hargraves I can't just show up to Sam Hyde's house. Yeah, you can do whatever you want. [1:45:30] Dave Reilly Maybe I can email their webs. If you're tired of skincare packed with chemicals, you can't pronounce it. North Idaho Tele Company. We keep it simple with grass-fed time-tested ingredients and zero junk. Our soaps, balms, and lip balm are packed with bio-available nutrients your skin actually needs. No fillers. No endocrine disruptors. Just rugged, reliable skincare that works. Ditch this synthetic garbage and switch to North Idaho Tele Company. Get yours at IdahoTallow.com. And please sign up for the soap of the month subscription. It helps this show like, you know, basically like half of the money from the soap of the month subscription goes to advertising here and also you get to be clean. Clean skin, nourished skin. They also have, I mean, we are getting to the end of summer, but they also have a pretty rocking sun balm. Yes. Totally not sunscreen. That would be illegal to say. But it is. And it's great. And you know, it worked out well. My mom was using it. Let's see, do I have the thing we went on a little journey this past weekend to Leavenworth? Oh, lovely. Which is like, little German town. It's cute. [1:46:42] Rebecca Hargraves And where do you call it? Washington State. You know, it's a great place. If you ever have a chance, [1:46:48] Dave Reilly go visit Leavenworth. It's a lot of fun. And the sun balm helps, especially on those sunny days. Sure does. Thank you guys for joining us today. You can find us on X at real backlash. The Backlash - Episode 68 — Zionism, Race & the Future of Christian Nationalism with Pastor Joel Webbon_transcribed [1:47:00] Rebecca Hargraves You can find all of our links on the backlash.net. Join us for our normal Wednesday show, [1:47:04] Dave Reilly which is at 3 p.m. PST. Well, Cameron is in whatever country you send. That's right. We will see you then and we look forward to it. Bye bye.